Let me explain what I mean exactly :

Sometimes, when old series are broadcast on an HD station (old episodes of "The Simpons", "Cheers", etc.), they are sent in the wrong aspect ratio.
Meaning, the image is broadcast as 16:9, even though it should be 4:3.

Now, I have a plugin which allows me to correct aspect ratios, it actually toggles through all the options that are available in the standard Dreambox 8000 menu.
However, as far as I am concerned this menu lacks an option.

It lists the following options :

* Display 4:3 content as...
* Display >16:9 content as...

What is missing is the option : Display 16:9 content as...

If that option were available, and allowed you to let you choose 4:3, plugin makers could extend their utility to include this option, and force a 4:3 aspect ratio, even if the broadcaster is incorrectly flagging the TV show as 16:9.

My Dreambox is connected via component and the only way I can solve the issue at the moment is by changing the settings on my TV, which is needlessly complex.

Couldn't this feature be added ?

Zitat von FendiMan

Do you mean that the picture is stretched at the whole screen?
Did you set the "16/9 content shown as just scale" at the A/V settings?
With this setting my DM8000 shows every 4/3 broadcast correctly with black stripes left and right.

Yes, the picture, though it should be 4:3 fills the whole screen.
The problem is that the broadcaster stretches it to 16:9, then sends it as if it were really 16:9.
For this I can't find a setting to correct this on Dreambox.

Zitat von Homey

there is no way to correct this on dreambox. Like you already noticed, it's the broadcaster which is sending in this format. They put big black bars to left/right so it looks like 4:3 content, but i real it's 16:9 ... you can't correct this on dreambox, sorry

No, Homey.
It 's the other way round, it looks like 16:9, but really it is 4:3.

If it were like you explained you could solve it by toggling the "Display 4:3 as...".
Why can you have options for "Display 4:3 as..." and "Display >16:9 as...", but not for "Display 16:9 as..." ?
On my PC I can change this, but I hate to have to copy it over to my PC first every time.

Zitat von floh

You're wrong.

The Broadcaster ist taking a 4:3 Picture and places it into a 16:9 black frame and sends it as 16:9.

If you want to blame somebody for that, so blame the Broadcaster which is to cheap to buy a 16:9 picture.

May be somebody will be able to make a plugin that could allow you to zoom in the picure manually but i really don't think it's gonna happen soon.

Maybe in a few years they'll all send a clena 16:9 picture but probably by then the standard could be 16:10.

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Well, with all due respect, but you're writing this without having seen the programme.
I don't believe this is 4:3 within a 16:9, as I have recorded shows like that and played them on the PC (Media Player Classic).
There I can choose whatever aspect ratio I like and there is definitely no black frame around the picture.

But more importantly, I'm not looking for someone or something to blame, just a solution to the problem.
At this point in time, the only way to do it is by changing the aspect ratio on my TV itself, or by first copying the file to PC, then playing it there with a program that allows me to change the aspect ratio (Media Player Classic).
If I force it to 4:3 then I get a correct picture.

BTW : the problem also exists for some 4:3 MPEG2 SD broadcasts, where the broadcaster for some reason chose the wrong aspect ratio.
The result looks just the same, and I have an example of this : [Blockierte Grafik: http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2615/arte3.jpg] 
This is a 1 minute fragment from the recording (used Videoredo TV Suite, as it simply cuts without recoding) :

http://rapidshare.com/files/401587186/short_byte.ts.html

Also, I have not heard any explanation.
Is it a technical problem, that the Dreambox cannot "unstretch" a 16:9 image to 4:3 ?

Zitat von MartiniB

media player clasic->shift+F10->Details:

it means provider sends wrong info, but would be nice see some option to fix that on dreambox side

Yes, and I said from the start that the problem was due to the broadcaster sending the wrong aspect ratio.
However, if the aspect ratio can be corrected by the Dreambox itself for 4:3 broadcasts and >16:9 broadcasts, why not for 16:9 broadcasts ?
Unless there is some sort of hardware limitation ?

Zitat von Homey

I was not talking about SD Channels, I was talking about HD channels like the threadstarter too!

Not even VLC or MPC can fix it by changing aspect-ratio, I always have those black bars there! If I force it to 4:3 it looks ugly (stretched to height; but not width):

Homey, I AM the thread starter, so it was up to me to decide on what the problem was that I wanted to raise, don't you think ?
I have the problem both with SD and HD broadcasts, where the broadcaster erroneously decides to stretch a 4:3 programme to 16:9 and give it that flag.
And I can solve that by using the options on my TV, or non my PC, which is always a cumbersome way to do that.

The problem you describe looks more like a question about preferences.
Personally, I prefer to see a broadcast the way it was meant to be.
So if a film was recorded in 4:3, I prefer having the pillarbox look to seeing stretched bodies.
And you do have several options on Dreambox to show that 4:3 image (pillarbox, 16:9 stretch, etc.), but not for the case I presented.
There are plugins which let you cycle through all the zoom options, with just the press of one button.
Now, if only I could do that for 16:9 broadcasts.

Zitat von Homey

Well, you was talking about HD Channel in your first posting and old SIMPSONS movies ect.

And there I have the same here ... when you now talk about SD Channels, then it must be a completly different "problem" and not "the same".

- We have HD Channels that simply send 4:3 content with black bars on left/right so it fits to 16:9 format.
- And we have SD channels with the problem you mentinoned above (send 4:3 content with 16:9 flag).

Sorry, have to disagree.
The HD Simpsons movie I had was not a 4:3 with black bars, which together create a 16:9 picture.
It was a 4:3 episode that was stretched to 16:9, just like the sample of Arte I posted here.
So, apart from the fact that it was SD vs HD, the problem is exactly the same.

BTW : I tried the solution Martini gave by changing the aspect ratio to 4:3 from the command line when playing back that Arte file, but this did not work.
Instead, the screen started flickering, and there were horizontal lines coming through the picture.
The picture was squashed vertically, making the aspect ratio even more wrong than it was before.

The "problem" you mention, I don't know why you see it as a problem.
It is obviously an old episode they upscaled in order to take advantage of the higher 1920x1080 resolution, but of course they kept the original 4:3 aspect ratio, and embedded it in a 16:9 picture.
The only way to work around your problem (there is no solution to it) is to zoom in, but then you'll lose part of the picture, and some sharpness.
Play it back with Media Player Classic and you can not only change the aspect ratio to anything you like, but you can also zoom in until your whole screen is filled.

To compare with my problem, I wanted to see black bars in the image, and I'd like an option to "destretch" it, so that I get circles instead of ellipses again.
You have the opposite point of view, where you want the whole screen to be filled, but how do you want to do that without distorting the whole image ?

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img714.imageshack.us/f/arte2.jpg/]

Zitat von anis_ber

Im not an expert
how do you know the arte sample was originally 4:3 then stretched to 16:9
what I know is that, 16:9 or 4:3 is how the channel broadcasts
HD = 16:9, if they broadcast with black bars +4:3 movie, It's a good thing,without those bars you will see the movie as SD (very stretched image), with the bars, It's HD like
SD= 4:3, or 16:9, many SD channels are 16:9 especially sports channels, why you wanna downgrade 16:9 to 4:3, I don't know about arte, but sometimes 4:3 channels broadcast in 4:3, but when the program is 16:9, the same channel switch to 16:9, is arte 16:9 or 4:3 channel? how do you know the arte movie was in 4:3? if so It's very tough, It means arte will adjust the picture depending on the movie (16:9 or 4:3), if 4:3 they will have to add bars like HD, I think arte wont do that, and you want that dreambox will have some video processing to see how the video was encoded, if 4:3 and the channel is 16:9, dreambox will add bars, very diffucult to realize
is that what you look for?

How I know that the original was 4:3 ?
Easy, the face is completely squashed, you should immediately notice this, and this is a very old TV show ("The Avengers", see http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054518/).
This series was recorded in 4:3, as can be seen by watching the IMDB page.
Besides, this was broadcast on Arte Belgique (cable), where the aspect ratio was wrong.
I simultaenously recorded the same thing on Arte SD (satellite) and Arte HD (satellite), there the aspect ratio was correct (4:3 on Arte SD, and 16:9 with an embedded 4:3 video on Arte HD).
Why I wanna see this image in 4:3 ?
Because it is meant to be 4:3, I don't want to see all faces and shapes distorted.

For the SD version :

This will not decrease image quality in any way, you'll get black pillar bars, but that 's it. the pixels are now 720x576, and they are elongated to create a 16:9 image.
If you change the aspect ratio to 4:3, the image will be unstretched, and will look normal again.

For HD movies, I would do the same if they are elongated 4:3 ones, if this is impossible because they need to be 16:9, yes, I'd like to get the Dreambox to add pillar bars, and restore the original resolution.

That is exactly what happens on my PC, when I choose Media Player Classic, and change the aspect ratio during playback.
No quality loss whatsoever, but a correct aspect ratio.

For those that don't see the fact of the faces being distorted, compare these :

1) Arte Belgique : aspect ratio 16:9 (incorrect !)

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2615/arte3.jpg]

2) Arte SD satellite : aspect ratio 4:3 (correct, face is not stretched horizontally)

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/214/arte1.jpg]

3) Arte HD satellite : aspect ratio 16:9 with within a 4:3 image with black bars added to fill the whole picture (correct, face is not stretched horizontally) :

[Blockierte Grafik: http://img714.imageshack.us/i/arte2.jpg/]

The final image I wanted to add for Arte HD doesn't seem to want to display on the forum.
Here 's another attempt :

http://img714.imageshack.us/i/arte2.jpg/

Ok, doesn't seem to work to add it to the forum, but you can click the image to see how it looks like in HD

Zitat von Homey

Hmm if I am right it should work then what MartiniB said where you can set 4:3 Ratio manually ... just make sure you output in 576i and not 1080i and that you have latest drivers/enigma on board ... then it should normally work!

But still a problem from the broadcaster and not from the dreambox I would say ...

I'm using 720p as output resolution, and using component.
I don't see why I should lower it to solve this issue.

EDIT : tested it (component, 50Hz, 576i).
Result : the image is squashed vertically, just like at 720p, only difference is that it 's no longer flickering or moving up and down.
But the aspect ratio is still wrong.

EDIT 2: I'll have to test with latest enigma/drivers, I'm currently using OpenPLi with a quite recent version.
I'll reply again when I have tested it with the original Dreambox version, latest drivers, etc.