Why DreamMultimedia doesn't talk about DM800 not supporting DD+?

1. offizieller Beitrag

    Lot of people already know that DreamMultimedia DM 800 HD PVR doesnt supports Dolby Digital+ audio. Lot of people asked DreamMultimedia any solution in this forum even in a lot more... But DreamMultimedia doesnt says anything for lot o months (they said too many month ago was that they were working on, down lines i put some answers...), so:


    First of all: If it's really not possible to have DD+ support in ours DM 800 HD, please, let us know, then we will stop asking for it!


    And then:


    WHY this silence? Why DM doesnt offers an answer to the people who had expended more than 300€ in one of their manfactured machines?
    Is DM really working in any solution?
    Why DM800 is called HD if it doesnt support DD+, the european HD audio standard?
    Will DM 800 SE support DD+ (at least it comes with HDMI)? If yes, is it possible that DM wants us to sell our DM 800 and to buy then a DM 800 SE?


    BTW: If any DM guy thinks that this message has to be deleted, of course you can delete it, it's your forum, but I've read the new rules, and I belive i'm using the "Freedom of Opinion" (first point). You have to take care about that there are too many people with this problem around the world and at least we want to hear something about it, just to hear something......



    Thanks in advance. Regards.



    Two MAY 2010 answers (i dont know if who answered was from DM but I suposed it):


    m0rphU: "There were some Threads in this forum stating that DMM works on it, but they have to wait for Broadcom (chip manufacturer) to apply the neccesary changes in microcode or something..."


    marder02: "As m0rphU explained, the DM800/8000 are not powerful enough to decode DD+ (or AC3+) in software, so DM needs to obtain specific microcode from Broadcom (provider of the main processor) to decode it in hardware. Unfortunately, the situation has been like this for several months, DM being unable to give an estimated milestone. We are not informed whether it is Broadcom that is dragging its feet for unkown reasons (money ???) or DM that considers this implementation as a lower priority and does not put pressure on Broadcom to get the required microcode."

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    2 Mal editiert, zuletzt von dabezt ()

    cant say very much about it, but if you say this:


    Zitat

    Why DM800 is called HD if it doesnt support DD+, the european HD audio standard?


    you can't be serious? In no way this is european standard for HD TV ... only a handfull providers are using it, limited to 1-2 countries ...


    ###


    You bought a product without DD+ Support, or can you see it somewhere mentioned on the product page? My TV also does not Support DD+, only normal AC3 ... nor does my Denon AVR support it. I also can't complain @ Philips or Denon about that, they tell me that my TV/AVR does not support it and over & out.


    With some luck we will get it in dreamboxes in the future with upcoming softwareupdates, but you never know ...


    All I know is that the DMM Software Developers don't have the required microcode from broadcom that needs to get implemented into the dreambox drivers. If they would have this code they would add it to the drivers, but they don't have this code and as far as I know it's also not their job to discuss this license stuff with broadcom.

    Theorie ist, wenn man alles weiß, aber nichts funktioniert.
    Praxis ist, wenn alles funktioniert aber niemand weiß warum.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Homey ()

    Zitat von Homey

    you can't be serious? In no way this is european standard for HD TV ... only a handfull providers are using it, limited to 1-2 countries ...

    There is an HDTV 'standard' established by EICTA (where it's recommended the use of DD+ for audio): http://www.digitaleurope.org/fileadmin/u…ifier_logos.pdf


    Even EBU and EICTA are not european gubernamental organizations, in Spain, the laws are mandatory with our Public gubernamental TV (RTVE) and they have to follow all the EBU and EICTA recomendations...

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    Zitat von Homey

    You bought a product without DD+ Support, or can you see it somewhere mentioned on the product page? My TV also does not Support DD+, only normal AC3 ... nor does my Denon AVR support it. I also can't complain @ Philips or Denon about that, they tell me that my TV/AVR does not support it and over & out.

    We're just asking for the answers to the questions we did to DreamMultimedia few months ago and that we are asking today. It's simple (yes or no, soon or late, now or never, etc.).


    BTW: It seems that you work for DM ... :winking_face:

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    This might appy to your country but not to whole europe.


    Here in my country it's very hard to find AVR's, PVR's or TV's that support DD+ ... only a handfull devices support it, that's why our TV Stations don't use this "standard" and simply send normal AC3/DD Sound that nearly every device supports ... maybe our TV Stations care about their customers? If they would add DD+ Support, I am sure they would add a second audio track with DD+ but keep our normal AC3/DD active for some more time ...


    But well, I can't say much more about it nor I don't want to discuss it. Just wanted to point out that not many devices support DD+ yet. This might change in the future but for now the "standard" is still normal AC3 Sound, that's what >90% of the HD Channels are using ...


    The DMM DEV's haven't received the required microcode for their drivers yet so they can't implement it. Why? I don't know!!


    BTW: This community forum is a "users help users" forum. I doubt you will get an official answer here from DMM about it :winking_face: An DEV already answered here one time and told you that they haven't received the required microcode from DMM/Broadcom yet, so they can't do anything about it (yet).


    BTW: That "standard" rules were made AFTER the DM800 came out :winking_face:

    Theorie ist, wenn man alles weiß, aber nichts funktioniert.
    Praxis ist, wenn alles funktioniert aber niemand weiß warum.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Homey ()


    You're welcome! Thnx. Regards.

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    I want an answer from DM too. It's ridiculous that a 350 Euro machine doesn't support it, and other cheap receivers do it perfectly.


    I have 2 DMs (800 T HD and 500HD) and if they don't support it I won't buy any DM anymore.


    Regards,

    in your country you might get cheap receivers with it, because you have TV stations that send audio in DD+ format.


    I have a Sony and Denon AVR = no support for DD+
    I have a Philips and Sony TV = no support for DD+
    I have a Humax and Dreambox PVR = no support for DD+
    I have a DLINK MediaPlayer = no support for DD+
    I have a CreativeLabs Soundblaster in my PC = no support for DD+


    So DMM is not alone with this "problem" :winking_face:


    BTW: It's all about the required license. DMM is a small company and doesn't get the attention like other big companies. They called Broadcom a few times already about it but simply did not get the required license yet, for whatever reason. I don't know why, nor does DMM know why it takes so long. And like said already: Those dreamboxes came out before it was made "standard" in your country, then you are always in trouble, not only with DMM products :winking_face:

    Theorie ist, wenn man alles weiß, aber nichts funktioniert.
    Praxis ist, wenn alles funktioniert aber niemand weiß warum.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Homey ()

    Zitat von Homey

    My TV also does not Support DD+, only normal AC3 ... nor does my Denon AVR support it. I also can't complain @ Philips or Denon about that, they tell me that my TV/AVR does not support it and over & out.


    All I know is that the DMM Software Developers don't have the required microcode from broadcom that needs to get implemented into the dreambox drivers. If they would have this code they would add it to the drivers, but they don't have this code and as far as I know it's also not their job to discuss this license stuff with broadcom.


    Hello,
    - In France it is illegal to sell HD DVBT TV without ac3+ support. But I agree, it is specific to France.
    - You should not ask Denon for AC3+ support. AC3+ is only for broadcast and is/should be converted to AC3 at the output of the receiver as described in the standard.
    - All broadcom chip used in DMM products have AC3+ support out of the box in hardware and in their SDK (just search about the BCM 7405 product brief pdf for example)


    So, you're right, but not completely. It "seems" that there is no "rationale" to not support AC3+, so our ask for the true reason for past and future.

    Zitat von Homey

    I have a Sony and Denon AVR = no support for DD+
    I have a Philips and Sony TV = no support for DD+


    I have a SONY 32" LCD TV bought 3 years ago, when there were no DD+ broadcasts in Spain.


    I have an LG 19" LCD TV bought 2 years ago when there were no DD+ broadcasts......


    Both get DD+ perfectly, and firmware hasn't been updated.


    DM is 5 months old......

    Zitat

    - All broadcom chip used in DMM products have AC3+ support out of the box in hardware and in their SDK (just search about the BCM 7405 product brief pdf for example)


    Yes I know the hardware supports it. But DMM needs a dolby-license and microcode from broadcom for their drivers for this! And that's the problem at the moment. The DMM Developers simply can't add support for it without the microcode from broadcom. And they don't even have to ask for it without a license from DOLBY! License-Stuff is not handled by our E2 Software-Developers, someone else @ DMM is responsible for this (i dont know who). They applied for license at DOLBY-LABS already a few times but no resposne yet. And without a Dolby-License, no microcode from broadcom!


    The DMM DEV's would add the required microcode to the drivers, if they would get it from Broadcom. But it looks like Dolby not really interested because DMM is a very small company compared to the other big ones ... no clue! Or maybe it's about money or whatever, I really have no idea. But don't blame the software-developers for it ... DOLBY-LABS seems to be the problem, not DMM. It's always a pain for them and takes a long time to get this license stuff. Not sure why it takes ages now with DD+ support and I know from a good source that they have asked dolby guys many many times already for license and that DMM did not forget you. But they simply did not get the dolby license yet :frowning_face:


    We will see! don't give up, there is still some hope that dreamboxes will support it one day! Maybe ...

    Theorie ist, wenn man alles weiß, aber nichts funktioniert.
    Praxis ist, wenn alles funktioniert aber niemand weiß warum.

    5 Mal editiert, zuletzt von Homey ()

    And official statement from DMM officials would be a good thing to peace all of us.
    And if they want, we, the consumers and/or customers of DMM could put/report pressure to Dolby to make things appends.
    But anyway, it is good to know!! Thank you.


    We all expect that DMM won't give up.
    Somme DVBS2 channel will begin to migrate to AC3+ for bandwidth reason (money is money) so they will be more and more pressure in a near future.


    Edit:
    The process to apply for a DD+ license could completely be done online: http://www.dolby.com/professio…ply-license-consumer.html
    To ask Dolby Labs why they don't answer DMM license request, we could contact them online. For French people: http://www.dolby.fr/fr/contact-us/index.html for Deutch http://www.dolby.de/de/contact-us/index.html and for others http://www.dolby.co.uk/about/contact_us/contactus.aspx

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Tazmaniac ()

    AC3+ is compressed AC3 Stream to save bandwidth for TV Stations and Satelite Providers.


    It's not better quality then normal AC3, but it's compressed so it uses less bandwidth. Dreambox needs to decompress it and convert it back to normal AC3 so that every TV/AVR can handle it ...

    Theorie ist, wenn man alles weiß, aber nichts funktioniert.
    Praxis ist, wenn alles funktioniert aber niemand weiß warum.

    And we still are waiting for an Official answer... BTW if it's a 'money matter' I think we will never have it, even that we bought this decoders at expensive rates...

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    I have a Samsung LE37B651 LCD TV bought 1.5 years ago and DD+ is supported. Dreambox it´s very expensive and I can´t understand Dream Multimedia silence. We only want an answer.

    Zitat von dabezt

    And we still are waiting for an Official answer... BTW if it's a 'money matter' I think we will never have it, even that we bought this decoders at expensive rates...


    What do you want to hear? I told you everything ...


    They applied for a dolby license @ dolby-labs but did not get a positive response yet. The approval process is still pending. They don't really know why they don't get a response yet, but DMM did not forget you and called them a few times already and will continue doing so. Like said it's very hard for small companies like DMM to get license there. If a big company like SONY or whatever wants a license it's much faster, Dolby-Labs don't seem to care that much about small companies like DMM and give it low priority. And yes, those licenses are very expensive!


    Without this license from dolby they will not get the required microcodes from broadcom ...


    BTW: Once again: This is a "USER HELPS USER" forum! This is the wrong place to get an OFFICIAL answer ... why don't you get it and how many times I have to repeat that this forum is the wrong place to get an official answer. Also, you should not expect that DMM tells you everything here as long as the license approval is still pending and they are still waiting. You would kill them if they tell you "Next month we have our license" and then it will not work, so they will not tell you anything I guess, until they have license and will add support for DD+ to their devices.


    All you can do is waiting and praying ... DMM did not forget this DD+ Stuff, I know it from a good source that they are still working on the license stuff ...

    Theorie ist, wenn man alles weiß, aber nichts funktioniert.
    Praxis ist, wenn alles funktioniert aber niemand weiß warum.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Homey ()


    Zitat von Homey

    cant say very much about it, but if you say this:


    Zitat von Homey

    Zitat


    Why DM800 is called HD if it doesnt support DD+, the european HD audio standard?


    Zitat von Homey

    you can't be serious? In no way this is european standard for HD TV ... only a handfull providers are using it, limited to 1-2 countries ...


    Zitat von Homey

    ###


    Zitat von Homey

    You bought a product without DD+ Support, or can you see it somewhere mentioned on the product page? My TV also does not Support DD+, only normal AC3 ... nor does my Denon AVR support it. I also can't complain @ Philips or Denon about that, they tell me that my TV/AVR does not support it and over & out.


    Zitat von Homey

    With some luck we will get it in dreamboxes in the future with upcoming softwareupdates, but you never know ...


    Zitat von Homey

    All I know is that the DMM Software Developers don't have the required microcode from broadcom that needs to get implemented into the dreambox drivers. If they would have this code they would add it to the drivers, but they don't have this code and as far as I know it's also not their job to discuss this license stuff with broadcom.



    Dolby Digital Plus, also known by the initials DD, AC3 and E-AC-3 (the latter read as Enhanced AC-3) is a compression scheme for digital audio developed by Dolby Laboratories with the idea of giving to Sopot audio needs requiring high-definition television (HDTV) and new digital formats HD DVD and Blu-ray [1]


    Consists of an improvement made in 2004 [2] Dolby Digital (the latter also known as AC-3) that supports bit rates between 0.032 and 6.144 Mbps and up to 13.1 surround channels (surround) compared to the previous ranges between 0.032 and 0.640 Mbps and up to 5.1 channels.


    The performance increase has been at the expense of losing some of the backwards compatibility since the AC-3 decoders are not able to recognize the signal E-AC-3 but the opposite is true. [3] To enable the existing plant equipment has provided a "E-AC3/AC3 to AC-3 Converter / Decoder" [2] that transforms the HDTV signal and HD DVD / Blu-ray in the old AC-3 which recognize teams 5.1 sound more common. This converter must be implemented in decoders or set top boxes "to be placed between the modern and old equipment.


    as we do not speak of two channels in Europe, but a standard sound present and future.
    I recommend not to buy dreambox if you do not want to stay with outdated equipment and no update.

    Zitat von Homey

    All you can do is waiting and praying ... DMM did not forget this DD+ Stuff, I know it from a good source that they are still working on the license stuff ...

    AS WE SAID: WE WANT TO KNOW SOMETHING OFFICIALLY, SOMETHING LIKE A COMMITMENT, and Where is supposed that we have to pray for? It's so hard to hear that we just can pray, WE HAVE PAYED aprox. 400€ for not have support, answer and just for praying???? I think It's unacceptable... If not, i think we could sell our Dreamboxes and buy something like VU + DUO... is this what DreamMultimedia did not forget? is what DM wants?


    As the last post says, what we can do i to recommend in all Sat forums around the world to everybody to dont buy Dreamboxes if this boxes will not get updates, even will not get new official information or answers... this is what we can do instead of praying, my friend!


    Thanks. Regards

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    OMG! You bought a receiver that simply isn't compatible with DD+ (yet)... So it's your own fault, that DD+ doesn't work right now... If it will work in future, you got lucky, but if not, then you're gonna have to live with it!
    If I'd have a non-DD+ receiver and would decide moving to France or so, I couldn't complain and just had to buy a new receiver... End of story...



    P.S.: Nevertheless it's sad for DMM they loose a lot of customers in your country right now -.-

    so long
    m0rphU